Hello Andrew,
Interesting to have that insight of NIWA software policies.
It's worth pointing out that iNaturalist makes use of PostgreSQL as the
underlying database for the main http://inaturalist.org and NZBRN
deployments. Drupal, in general, uses MySQL (although PostgreSQL can be
used, but it creates occasional incompatibilities for the many modules
which haven't been tested with PostgreSQL).
Also worth noting is that it's no secret that Symfony is a
re-implementation of Ruby on Rails' concepts using PHP rather than Ruby.
Symfony suits organisations who have lots of PHP expertise and/or lots
of investment in PHP-specific infrastructure. That said, Ruby on Rails
can be hosted on a very similar (fully open source) Linux server stack
to PHP (even concurrently and harmoniously :) as on Egressive's
infrastructure). A couple of our developers came to RoR by traversing
from Drupal to Symfony and then on to RoR (mostly for the benefits
inherent in the Ruby language, according to them). Many developers see
learning a new programming language as a major impediment, others see it
as no problem whatsoever, given that the concepts underlying them are
all related.
I agree in the weight assessment you make. In Egressive's toolbox, Ruby
on Rails is the middle-to-heavy weight complement to the light-to-middle
weight Drupal (with a focus on Content Management Behaviour).
Kind regards,
Dave
On 25/07/12 09:42, Andrew Watkins wrote:
> The Systems Development team at NIWA use the following tools extensively:
>
> 1. Drupal - for content management only - NIWA and Riskscape websites etc.
> - we prefer not to extend modules in CMSs as our experience is that
> content management systems - and websites generally have a different life
> cycle to the underlying data systems, middle ware and web services.
>
> 2. PHP on Symfony. - for 3 Tier web systems (database, business rules,
> web user interface).
> E.g data entry forms, search tools some web services etc.
> This is the PHP equivalent of Ruby on Rails and borrows most of RORs
> concepts back into the more common programming language. This is the most
> effective 'time to market' solution.
> Examples include the Environmental Information Browser ei.niwa.co.nz and
> the Taxonomic Attribute editor.
>
> 3. Java - for complex middleware, business rules, web services, thick
> client apps and persistent sessions.
> We use Java running under Tomcat or Jboss for more involved systems.
> E.g Taxon reference system TRS web services, NEMO web services etc. and
> complex desktop applications such as RiskScape.
> Major tool chains such as Geonetwork (for metadata), GeoServer (for WMS,
> WFS etc) and upcoming SOS projects all use Java.
>
> We might think of these three layers as light, middle and heavyweight. To
> be chosen depending on the scale and life cycle of the project.
>
> Where database persistence is required we use Postgres/PostGIS for the
> most part, with some systems using the XML database eXist DB.
>
> Andrew
>
>
> On 25/07/12 9:09 AM, "Trent Bell" wrote:
>
>> Absolutely helpful, Dave. This is the kind of advice I like to see more
>> often on here - very educational and illuminating, and based on
>> practical experience. If anyone else has nuggets like this, please share
>> with all.
>>
>> Trent Bell
>> EcoGecko Consultants
>> 32 Egmont St
>> New Plymouth
>> New Zealand
>> trent@ecogecko.co.nz
>> www.ecogecko.co.nz
>> www.biogecko.co.nz
>> 027-284-7788 (SMS only)
>>
>> EcoGecko Consultants
>> On 24/07/2012 9:06 p.m., Dave Lane wrote:
>>> Hello Jerome,
>>>
>>> I can't provide a feature comparison as I've never used iSpot, but as a
>>> director of Egressive, the software company developing the enhanced
>>> iNaturalist implementation for the NZBRN, I can tell you a bit about the
>>> underlying technologies on which both are built. The iNaturalist
>>> platform is built on the Ruby on Rails platform and iSpot is built on
>>> the Drupal platform. Egressive's two web development technologies happen
>>> to be Ruby on Rails and Drupal and we have used them commercially since
>>> 2008 and 2005 respectively.
>>>
>>> Both Ruby on Rails and Drupal are open source technologies and have
>>> massive developer communities. Both feature huge libraries of
>>> functionality - Drupal has thousands of themes and functional modules
>>> and Ruby on Rails features many hundreds of powerful "gems" (somewhat
>>> analogous to Drupal modules).
>>>
>>> Drupal is written in the ubiquitous PHP language (available on nearly
>>> every web host worldwide, considered commodity), and as such is easy for
>>> many developers to access and familiarise themselves with. The community
>>> welcomes beginners and represents a broad range of skill levels. Ruby on
>>> Rails is written in the Ruby language, which is a more advanced language
>>> than PHP, and its use requires a somewhat more advanced understanding of
>>> software concepts. Because of that, the community is somewhat smaller,
>>> but the typical technical level (and, therefore, the software quality
>>> standards) tends to be appreciably higher.
>>>
>>> Drupal is certainly a very powerful toolset, and has been used by a
>>> number of bio-diversity recording platforms. Because of its highly
>>> functional module collection, it allows developers to prototype the
>>> desired functionality very quickly. It is, however, primarily a content
>>> management system (CMS) and at some point the same highly structured
>>> module approach which allows a lot of functionality to be built very
>>> quickly transitions from being an enabler to becoming an impediment for
>>> refining that functionality. A number of the most ambitious
>>> bio-diversity platforms have developed to the point where wrestling with
>>> Drupal's in-built structure has largely halted progress. It seems a
>>> common path for these platforms (e.g. the Encyclopaedia of Life) to
>>> start with Drupal and achieve a certain level of capability. Then, when
>>> its developers reach those limits, they start again, adopting a more
>>> powerful platform. In the case of most who have outgrown Drupal (also
>>> e.g. the EoL), they move on to the Ruby on Rails platform. This same
>>> exact progression happens quite a lot in other software domains outside
>>> of bio-diversity recording as well.
>>>
>>> iNaturalist's technically superb (and highly proficient) original
>>> development team (in San Francisco) started the project using the Ruby
>>> on Rails platform, and in my professional opinion that choice makes it a
>>> substantially more robust and expansive application from a technology
>>> perspective, with greater scope for continuous improvement and advanced
>>> features. For example, we are now able to add NZBRN's functional
>>> requirements with relative ease on top of the very sound foundation
>>> they've created.
>>>
>>> For any on the list with software expertise, Ruby on Rails offers the
>>> technical advantages over Drupal of
>>> - by its design, facilitating test driven development allowing for more
>>> rigorous development processes
>>> - supporting continuous integration allowing a more robust deployment
>>> process (along with automated testing)
>>> - allow for much cleaner database schema than Drupal
>>> - making it easy to create powerful web services interfaces allowing
>>> external automated systems to interact with iNaturalist in very clever
>>> ways.
>>>
>>> So, while I can't comment on their relative current capabilities because
>>> I'm not familiar with iSpot, my experience with both underlying
>>> platforms makes me think that iNaturalist is a better target for further
>>> sector investment in software capabilities because it has far greater
>>> growth potential.
>>>
>>> Hope that's helpful.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On 24/07/12 19:49, Jerome Sullivan wrote:
>>>> Good day All,
>>>>
>>>> How does iNaturalist compare with iSpot? Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Jerome
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: dataversity_public_discuss@dataversity.org.nz
>>>> [mailto:dataversity_public_discuss@dataversity.org.nz] On Behalf Of Dan
>>>> Randow
>>>> Sent: 24 July 2012 04:55 AM
>>>> To: dataversity_public_discuss@dataversity.org.nz
>>>> Subject: [Dataversity] iNaturalist
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> iNaturalist is becoming established as a
>>>> significant player in the biodiversity data world. A new partnership
>>>> with the Encyclopedia of Life will see iNaturalist as the platform for
>>>> citizen-contributed observations to complement the species information
>>>> in EOL .
>>>>
>>>> iNaturalist is, of course the platform chosen by NZ Bio-recording
>>>> Network as
>>>> its new platform for citizen science observations.
>>>>
>>>> Dan
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> @danrandow +64-27-431-4928 +64-3-377-5377 Chief Wrangler,
>>>> http://dataversity.org.nz and http://onlinegroups.net
>>>>
>>>>
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